Friday, October 9, 2009

Well this is embarassing

I’m Norwegian on my mother’s side.

In 1989, the current Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, won the Nobel Peace Prize.

In 2009, the current President of the United States, Barack Obama, won the Nobel Peace Prize.

I guess this would be what my mother's people call ironi, right?



Thanks to Blue Lyon for the info on past winners.

Reclusive Leftist - I first read about this, um, occurence via Greg Mankiw. My reaction was pretty much identical to Reclusive Leftist’s. Except for the coffee thing - cant stand the stuff.

Just One Minute decides his favorite line from the Instapundit readers is “How do you say ‘jumped the shark’ in Norwegian?” I can’t quite figure out how to conjugate the verb but I believe “jump the shark” would be “hoppe en hai” which sounds like something a rabbit would do if he was feeling particularly energetic.


WLindsayWheeler said...

Just plain disgusting. Obama the Nobel Prize Winner? Is the Sky Green? Is the Pope Protestant? Bears don't cr*p in the woods? I live in LuLu Land. What are they smoking over there?

It is no wonder that Muslims are taking over Europe--Maybe they will do a better job. God help us---No scratch that---end it now before it gets any worse.

Mara said...

It is no wonder that Muslims are taking over Europe--

What the heck do Muslims have to do with President Obama receiving the Nobel Peace Prize? Do tell.

I'm much more concerned about Americans like you who share the same view as the Taliban regarding the President of the United States receiving the Peace Prize. I would hope it would concern you, too.

Elise said...

I think disgusting is a little strong - strange and puzzling are more how I would describe it so perhaps a green sky is more in line with my thinking. And I have to agree with Mara that the Nobel Prize award seems unrelated to the Muslim presence in Europe.

However I would also suggest that Mara take a look at Glenn Greenwald's post on this - read the first update and click through to the Alex Koppelman post referenced in the second update and consider whether you really want to make Karl Rove proud.

Grim said...

I'm much more concerned about Americans like you who share the same view as the Taliban...

An amusing concept: the President seems willing to consider negotiating with the Taliban on even terms, but not with American conservatives.

Good to know who your enemies really are, eh, lass?

Mara said...

Thank Elise. I, too, had read Glenn's post on the topic. My reference to the Taliban was based on my Russ Limbaugh's on air/on line cheering, which was echoed by many commenters, that:

LIMBAUGH: I think that everybody is laughing. Our president is a worldwide joke. Folks, do you realize something has happened here that we all agree with the Taliban and Iran about, and that is he doesn't deserve the award. Now that's hilarious, that I'm on the same side of something with the Taliban, and that we all are on the same side as the Taliban.

I see little good in taking delight in the possibility that "we are all on the same side as the Taliban" because the President of the United States received an award that he didn't even seek, and was one of the first to say he didn't deserve.

Grim, claiming the current deliberations about next steps in Afghanistan, particularly after Obama authorized sending 21,000 troops over there just a few months ago (and which number I should add is 5,000 less than Bush sent for the surge, and which took Bush months to agree upon) is hardly negotiating with the Taliban.

Besides, isn't negotiating with the enemy part of the Petraeus counterinsurgency strategy?

Elise said...

Mara - First of all, I don't expect anyone who is on the Right to take responsibility for what Rush Limbaugh says. In the same vein, I don't expect anyone who is on the Left to take responsibility for what Keith Olbermann says. They're some strange combination of entertainers and demagogues, useful for saying what no one else will (thesis, antithesis, synthesis) but not policy makers or serious spokesmen.

Given what you quoted from Limbaugh, however, I don't interpret that as taking delight in being on the same side as the Taliban; I interpret it as dark humor that there would ever come a time when someone like Limbaugh would agree with the Taliban on anything. It's a brutal jab at Obama but it's not really delight.

Furthermore what you're arguing now is not the same as what you argued earlier: that you were "concerned" about Americans who share the same view as the Taliban. That implied (at least to me) that you believed it was wrong for Americans to share the Taliban's views on anything. I'm not big on guilt by association or, if you prefer, I believe that an idea is not responsible for the people who hold it. Even if you believe an idea *is* responsible for the people who hold it, any American who thinks it is inappropriate for Obama to have won the Prize has lots and lots of company around the world.

(Just as an aside, we don't actually know whether Obama sought the award. I'm prepared to believe he did not but I'd dearly love to know who nominated him.)

I believe what Grim was referring to was the reports that came out late this week that Obama appears to be concluding that the Taliban in Afghanistan is not the enemy and may agree to their having a role in the government and/or to their controlling some parts of Afghanistan. (It does make an amusing contrast with the treatment of Republicans especially if, like me, you are a strong supporter of the States having more power and responsibility.) If this turns out to be the case, I believe the United States should offer asylum to every Afghan woman who wants it.

Beyond that, questions about the number of troops sent to Iraq and Afghanistan and those about Petraeus' strategy - and how it lines up with McChrystal's - are above my pay grade. I'll let Grim talk about those if he wants to do so.

Mara said...

Furthermore what you're arguing now is not the same as what you argued earlier: that you were "concerned" about Americans who share the same view as the Taliban.

How so? I wrote was that I was concerned with Americans "who share the same views as The Taliban regarding the President of the United States receiving the Peace Prize." The Taliban condemend Obama receiving the award. Limbaugh et al are on record agreeing with the Taliban (and Hamas) regarding the award. What am I missing?

In my mind, Governor Pawlenty gave the proper response:

I think the appropriate response is when anybody wins a Nobel Prize that is a very noteworthy development and designation and I think the appropriate response is to say 'Congratulations.'

The Taliban have their obvious reasons for condemning the award. What's the basis for the Russ Limbaughs of the world? That the POTUS didn't earn it? Fine. Then the skeptics' beef should be with the Committee, and not the recipient just as mine was when Henry Kissinger received his.

As for seeking the award? If that were possible, I imagine Big Bill would have taken to that stage early, and often:)

I'm reminded of the lyrics from an old John Prine song:

If dreams were thunder
lightning was desire
this old house would've burned down
a long time ago

Elise said...

Mara - Being concerned that Americans find themselves in agreement with the Taliban that Obama does not deserve the Peace Prize is different from condemning those who take delight in being on the same side as the Taliban. I hate to use a Hitler analogy but it's the difference between being concerned that someone is a vegetarian because that means he agrees with Hitler and condemning someone for being delighted to be like Hitler. The latter seems reasonable to me; the former does not.

Your point about having a beef with the Norwegian Nobel Committee is a valid one. Most people I read are expressing incredulity at the award. To the extent there is negativity about Obama it has to do with the fact that it's hard to believe anyone could be the subject of such long-running, over-the-top adoration without encouraging it in some way. It's the teacher's pet problem: maybe the beef should be with the teacher but unless the teacher's pet is clearly and significantly more accomplished than anyone else the rest of the kids are going to be pretty sure the pet is partially responsible for all the undeserved attention.

We don't actually know that Bill *didn't* seek the Nobel Prize - and I'll be long dead before that information is released. I will say that it doesn't seem like Bill's style.

More seriously, this ties into the whole issue of how much of the hype surrounding Obama is his doing and how much isn't. I don't think he nominated himself - I don't think he meets the qualifications for being a nominator - but it would not surprise me to discover that he knew he was being nominated. That may sound harsh but I never have and never will forget his handling of the RFK/June incident.